Socapro what happened to our relay team for London ?

[Controversial]

I'm behind on track news but what happened to our sprinters?

I know Richard had that statement not too long ago but what the hell is going on?

For a nation that has more money than Jamaica and other islands, it's a shame we don't have things in order and it's 2017

[gawd on pitch]

According to Socapro, our men 4x100 was supposed to push for a medal. I predicted that they might not even make the final.

Hard luck for the women's 4x100. The exchanges slowed them down by a lot. Plus KSF is clearly not in the form she was at the Nationals.

[royal]

It appears nobody does be in the form they were at nationals. I've been saying for years something has to be frigging wrong with de clock at HCS. At lot of those athletes doh produce dem times no where else.

[vb]

It appears nobody does be in the form they were at nationals. I've been saying for years something has to be frigging wrong with de clock at HCS. At lot of those athletes doh produce dem times no where else.

At first I thought it was the new track that was allowing such times. But I have to admit that five odd years later I have to agree with you Royal.

[Controversial]

It appears nobody does be in the form they were at nationals. I've been saying for years something has to be frigging wrong with de clock at HCS. At lot of those athletes doh produce dem times no where else.

Happy for the 400 boys

But the clock is not the problem, we need a track club to compete with MVP

All the money we have in our nation and our sports going down the drain, ridiculous

[Deeks]

It appears nobody does be in the form they were at nationals. I've been saying for years something has to be frigging wrong with de clock at HCS. At lot of those athletes doh produce dem times no where else.

Happy for the 400 boys

But the clock is not the problem, we need a track club to compete with MVP

All the money we have in our nation and our sports going down the drain, ridiculous

I think we need a dedicated TF only facility.

[Socapro]

According to Socapro, our men 4x100 was supposed to push for a medal. I predicted that they might not even make the final.

Hard luck for the women's 4x100. The exchanges slowed them down by a lot. Plus KSF is clearly not in the form she was at the Nationals.

Don't twist what I said. I said they could push for a medal with their current leg speed provided they got enough relay practice which they didn't.

I still maintain thay our current crop of sprinters can make 4x100m relay finals and push for a medal at major championships but we must invest in a proper relay camp right after National Trials and our relay teams must then be given the opportunity to run in a few international relay competitions right after the relay camp to sharpen up on what they have learnt and practiced in the Relay Camp.
All this should happen before we head into a major championships and our relay teams need to at least be in the IAAF top 10 list by the time our team is heading to compete at a major international track & field champs.

Here is what I propose for our 4x100m Relay Camps which is very affordable and practical:-

If we want to start winning 4x100m relay medals again at major championships on a regular basis then we need to set up two relay squads, A & B using a pool of about 10 to 12 of of our best female sprinters and 10 to 12 of of our best male sprinters.

The A Squad could be the top 4 places at senior national trials in the 100m Final plus the top 2 places from the 200m Final for argument sake;
The B squad could be the next 4 places at senior national trials in the 100m Final (5th to 8th) plus the 3rd & 4th places from the 200m Final for argument sake.

So the A squad will have 6 athletes including 2 good curve runners who are good at the 200m and the B squad would also have 6 athletes including 2 good curve runners who are good at the 200m.
 
When we have Relay Camp both squads A & B should attend and they should practice different relay orders based upon the strenghts of the individual members to work out what is the best order.

The goal of the Women 4x100m Relay A team should be to make our baton changes as reliable and efficient as possible and to run 41.5x while the goal of the B team should be to run 42 flat.

The goal of the Men 4x100m Relay A team should be to make our baton changes as reliable and efficient as possible and to run sub-38 while the goal of the B team should be to run 38.5x.

Near the end of the relay camp the Men 4x100m relay A team & B team should run a few competitive relay races against each other and the the Women 4x100m relay A team & B team should also run a few competitive relay races against each other.

This relay camp must be followed by at least one international meet which both relay squads (A squad & B squad) should attend with the goal of placing first and second at that meet (Trinidad & Tobago 4x100m Relay 'A' and Trinidad & Tobago 4x100m Relay 'B').
If it is not possible for us to attend an international meet featuring international relay teams outside of T&T then a few top international 4x100m relay teams (wanting to run a top 16 relay time) should be invited to a Last Chance Meet in T&T and we can then run both our T&T A and B 4x100m relay teams against them.

Both our Men and Women's Relay 'A' teams should also have a goal of consistently being in the top 5 of the IAAF top list every year especially in the build-up to major senior championships.
And we should also try to duplicate this same relay preparation system at our junior levels so that transistion from Junior to Senior level becomes much easier for our young upcoming athletes and relay squads.

Finally we should also have a similar relay camp for our Men's and Women's 4x400m relays teams which would be particularly beneficial for our 4x400m relay women who would eventually start making an impact at major senior championships like our 4x400m relay men are currently doing.

By about the 3rd year of us annually holding these 4x100m and 4x400m Relay camps we should start seeing the fruits bearing of all our relay teams not only qualifying for relay finals at major championships but also pressing for and regularly winning medals just like USA and Jamaica regularly do.
So basically if we start having these annual Relay Camps from next year we should be in a position to have all our relay teams both Men and Women qualifying for all the Relay Finals at the 2020 Tokyo Olympics and pressing for medals.

In addition once we hold these annual Relay Camps (which don't always have to be held in T&T by the way) we should also start coming home with medals from the World Relays even if we are only able to send our 4x100m and 4x400m B relay teams to World Relays depending on the availability of our top sprinters and quartermilers.

Finally as an incentive for our TTO athletes to attend this Relay Camp regardless of their finanical situation the participants should be paid about $40.00 US per session per person so that it is not seen by them as a financial burden for them to attend in addition to the extra work that is involved which will eventually pay off. 
In Britain they use a percentage of the profits made from their National Lottery to help fund the preparation of their athletes so we should consider doing similar in T&T since most folks in T&T play the Lotto!! 

[gawd on pitch]

Could or whatever.. leg speed practice.. we know that  team wasn't pushing or almost pushing for no medal. They came 5th in the semi.

[real madness]

socapro you really feel we have the leg speed for the men's relay team?  the 2 fastest guys are 10.25

[Socapro]

Could or whatever.. leg speed practice.. we know that  team wasn't pushing or almost pushing for no medal. They came 5th in the semi.

You can fight for agrument all you want, still I never said that our team WILL qualify for the Final and WILL push for a medal.
I said they could if certain conditions are met to maximise their potential (just like the Japs, Germans and the British are currently doing) which involves conducting Relay Camps with lots of practice.
Since the Relay Camp never happened my expectations for our Men's Relay team to do as well as they could with their current leg speed was relatively low.

But continue twisting and trying to misrepresenting what I said in your efforts to have a time wasting argument.

I will continue to maintain that when we start holding proper Relay Camps to get enough practice and start regularly entering Relay meets (just like the Japs, Chinese, Brits, Germans, etc are doing) to get our relay teams properly prepared then we will start regularly making Men's 4x100m Finals again and be able to push for medals as we did in the past even with our current crop of male sprinters.

As for our Women 4x100m relay team even though we have overal quicker leg speed than the British just look how much better than us the Brits are currently doing in the 4x100m Relay mainly because they have proper Relay Camps and gets lots of practice.
So if we want to see our Women 4x100m relay team on the podium again and not just qualifying for Finals then we too will need to take part in annual Relay Camps to get our Women properly prepared for medalling at major championships. There is no getting around proper preparations if we want to see future 4x100m relay medals.

I have already outlined what we need to do in our Relay Camps in post #6 above.

[Socapro]

socapro you really feel we have the leg speed for the men's relay team?  the 2 fastest guys are 10.25

10.25 and 10.26 are not their fastest times this season. Both Callender and Bledman have run 10.1x times this season outside of T&T.

I believe with a Relay Camp and enough relay practice our Men's 4x1 team can make Finals and even press for a medal at major championships with their current overal leg speed provided everyone is gelling and baton changes are smooth and efficient which only comes with lots of relay practice.
Until our NAAA's wake up and setup the necessary Relay Camps annually we will continue to underperform in the 4x100m relays at major championships.

[Deeks]

Also, they need a separate facility to train anytime. Not a stadium. Just a fenced around for TF only.

[Socapro]

Also, they need a separate facility to train anytime. Not a stadium. Just a fenced around for TF only.

We need to decide on which of the current stadiums in T&T we want to turn into a dedicated track & field stadium (no carnival fetes taking priority during the carnival season) and we need to build a proper warm-up/training track next to the stadium which can be used at any time by the athletes like Deeks just suggested.   

[Deeks]

Also, they need a separate facility to train anytime. Not a stadium. Just a fenced around for TF only.

We need to decide on which of the current stadiums in T&T we want to turn into a dedicated track & field stadium (no carnival fetes) and we need to build a proper warm-up/training track next to the stadium which can be used at any time like Deeks just suggested.   

A proper warm-up track at HCS will be difficult because of space. They could convert the auxiliary football field, but football go cry victimization.They could try to acquired property around that area. But that will be expensive. But Ato should be the dedicated TF stadium, in my opinion. It more "centrally located".  But that will be another comesse.

[Socapro]

Also, they need a separate facility to train anytime. Not a stadium. Just a fenced around for TF only.

We need to decide on which of the current stadiums in T&T we want to turn into a dedicated track & field stadium (no carnival fetes) and we need to build a proper warm-up/training track next to the stadium which can be used at any time like Deeks just suggested.   

A proper warm-up track at HCS will be difficult because of space. They could convert the auxiliary football field, but football go cry victimization.They could try to acquired property around that area. But that will be expensive. But Ato should be the dedicated TF stadium, in my opinion. It more "centrally located".  But that will be another comesse.

I never understood why the TTFA was given the Ato Boldon stadium as their home and not the NAAA's.
Was Ato a world class footballer or was he a world class athlete for goodness sake?!   

[doc]

Then are you also inferring that Dwight Yorke Stadium should be the home of Football? 

[Socapro]

Then are you also inferring that Dwight Yorke Stadium should be the home of Football? 

Why not?! 

[Deeks]

Also, they need a separate facility to train anytime. Not a stadium. Just a fenced around for TF only.

We need to decide on which of the current stadiums in T&T we want to turn into a dedicated track & field stadium (no carnival fetes) and we need to build a proper warm-up/training track next to the stadium which can be used at any time like Deeks just suggested.   

A proper warm-up track at HCS will be difficult because of space. They could convert the auxiliary football field, but football go cry victimization.They could try to acquired property around that area. But that will be expensive. But Ato should be the dedicated TF stadium, in my opinion. It more "centrally located".  But that will be another comesse.

I never understood why the TTFA was given the Ato Boldon stadium as their home and not the NAAA's.
Was Ato a world class footballer or was he a world class athlete for goodness sake?!   

That is the comesse I talking about. It should be clarified if TTFA has full jurisdiction over the stadium. If T&F want practice a Wednesday night, but TTFA want to play an international because HCS is being used for a big concert .... something has to give. There is land around Ato. Maybe they should apply for a plot and work on building a dedicated track.

[Socapro]

Also, they need a separate facility to train anytime. Not a stadium. Just a fenced around for TF only.

We need to decide on which of the current stadiums in T&T we want to turn into a dedicated track & field stadium (no carnival fetes) and we need to build a proper warm-up/training track next to the stadium which can be used at any time like Deeks just suggested.   

A proper warm-up track at HCS will be difficult because of space. They could convert the auxiliary football field, but football go cry victimization.They could try to acquired property around that area. But that will be expensive. But Ato should be the dedicated TF stadium, in my opinion. It more "centrally located".  But that will be another comesse.

I never understood why the TTFA was given the Ato Boldon stadium as their home and not the NAAA's.
Was Ato a world class footballer or was he a world class athlete for goodness sake?!   

That is the comesse I talking about. It should be clarified if TTFA has full jurisdiction over the stadium. If T&F want practice a Wednesday night, but TTFA want to play an international because HCS is being used for a big concert .... something has to give. There is land around Ato. Maybe they should apply for a plot and work on building a dedicated track.

That makes plenty sense! But do we do sensible cost effective things like that in T&T?!   

[gawd on pitch]

Fine then. Even if they get all kind of practice.. Attend all kind of relay camp.. Receive training from the best, that mens 4x100 still would not come close to possibly push for a medal. The quality of the teams that made the final are more higher than our current 4x100. Plus Bledman even say he ain't 100%. And even if he was, that 4x100 team would have been lucky if they made the final. That is the truth.

I would have given you the benefit of the doubt if they at least made the final. But let's face it, the quality is not there for us at the moment.

I ain't trying to fight or argue with you Soca. But I think a more realistic prediction would have been to make the final. 5th in the semi.. the proof is in the pudding bro. 

[Deeks]

Guys, I don't think if we get all our wishes, it would instantaneously flow into gold medals. I am looking at rewards in Paris and LA. If we were to get any kind of medals in Tokyo we should be grateful. But Paris and LA should be the goal(gold). The 12 to 16 age group of kids should be the beneficiaries of this program we are suggesting.

[real madness]

4x1 women relay, MLA, Keshorn, 4x4 men relay and Jereem in 200 should be contenders for medals.  Cedenio and Jehue fully healthy and training in the right camps should be contenders.  Assuming no other break out stars, there is potential for 7 medals.  The reality is a lot can happen in 3 years, who expected Jehue would not even be a contender now after his success in 2013, injuries, coaching issues, lack of support, poor training facilities, poor admin, etc. that can line up like the swiss cheese diagram resulting in the potential of 7 medals becoming no medals.

The experience Khalifa got in the 2017 WC will help get ready to be a future star.  A lot of ppl cry her down but they seem to forget she is only 19.  Allyuh remember the 18 yr old Ato Boldon in 1992? What happened in that Olympics then what happened in 1996 and 2000.  Be patient and more importantly be supportive.

[Socapro]

Fine then. Even if they get all kind of practice.. Attend all kind of relay camp.. Receive training from the best, that mens 4x100 still would not come close to possibly push for a medal. The quality of the teams that made the final are more higher than our current 4x100. Plus Bledman even say he ain't 100%. And even if he was, that 4x100 team would have been lucky if they made the final. That is the truth.

I would have given you the benefit of the doubt if they at least made the final. But let's face it, the quality is not there for us at the moment.

I ain't trying to fight or argue with you Soca. But I think a more realistic prediction would have been to make the final. 5th in the semi.. the proof is in the pudding bro. 

Are you trying to be some kind of idiot gawd on pitch?

For the last time I never predicted that we would definitely make the Men's 4x100m final and push for a medal.
I said we COULD IF certain conditions are met which were never met aka a proper Relay Training Camp.

Please post the quote of me predicting that the T&T Men's 4x100m team WILL definitely make the 4x100m Final and push for a medal regardless of lack of relay preparations.
Either provide the evidence or stop continuing to behave like a slow person who don't understand English.

Regards your argument that "The quality of the teams that made the final are more higher than our current 4x100" lets examine the Turkey team that made the Final with a 38.44SB time:-

Yigitcan Hekimoglu who ran their 1st leg has a 100m PB of 10.54 set all the way back in 2010 (see link: https://www.iaaf.org/athletes/turkey/yigitcan-hekimoglu-249528 );
Jak Ali Harvey who ran their 2nd leg has a 100m SB of 10.10 for 2017 (see link: https://www.iaaf.org/athletes/turkey/jak-ali-harvey-256049 );
Emre Zafer Barnes who ran their 3rd leg has a 100m SB of 10.17 for 2017 (see link: https://www.iaaf.org/athletes/turkey/emre-zafer-barnes-224146 );
Ramil Guliyev who ran their 4th leg has a 100m PB of 9.97 for 2017 (see link: https://www.iaaf.org/athletes/turkey/ramil-guliyev-226874 );

So this season Turkey's 1st leg was a 10.54 sprinter, 2nd leg was a 10.10 sprinter, 3rd leg was a 10.17 sprinter and 4th leg was a 9.97 sprinter; Turkey's average 100m leg speed works out to be 10.195 => 10.20.

For reference here is link to results from the 4x100m Heats, Turkey was in T&T's Heat: https://www.iaaf.org/competitions/iaaf-world-championships/iaaf-world-championships-london-2017-5151/results/men/4x100-metres-relay/heats/result#resultheader

Now lets look at T&T's 4x100m relay team used in 4x1 Heats that did those awfully inefficient baton changes and ran 38.61 which was not good enough to get them to the final:-

Keston Bledman who ran their 1st leg has a 100m SB of 10.08 for 2017 (see link: https://www.iaaf.org/athletes/trinidad-and-tobago/keston-bledman-208570 );
Kyle Greaux who ran their 2nd leg has a 100m SB of 10.16 for 2017 (see link: https://www.iaaf.org/athletes/trinidad-and-tobago/kyle-greaux-284030 );
Moriba Morain who ran their 3rd leg has a 100m SB of 10.19 for 2017 (see link: https://www.iaaf.org/athletes/trinidad-and-tobago/moriba-morain-247423 );
Emmanuel Callender who ran their 4th leg has a 100m SB of 10.10 for 2017 (see link: https://www.iaaf.org/athletes/trinidad-and-tobago/emmanuel-callender-237051 );

So this season T&T's's 1st leg was a 10.08 sprinter, 2nd leg was a 10.16 sprinter, 3rd leg was a 10.19 sprinter and 4th leg was a 10.10 sprinter; T&T's average 100m leg speed works out to be 10.1325 => 10.13 which is faster than Turkey who qualified for the Men's 4x1 Final.

I can also demonstrate with similar stats that T&T's average leg speed was just as good or better than another 2 relay teams that made the 4x100m final.

This proves my argument that with a proper Relay Training Camp using our current fit and available sprinters T&T can not only make the Men's 4x100m Final but also press for a medal but without that required Relay Camp we are going to continue underperforming and are simply spinning top in mud.
I doh just talk for talking sake like some folks here, I can back my talk with stats as I just did!

[real madness]

Socapro, I follow your logic and argument.  It makes sense but one area where ppl could challenge it is the fact 3 of the 4 SB were obtained at the HCS.  People still skeptical about that clock.
The true differentiator is practice.  You can have one team with an average 10.25 per leg blaze a team with an average of 10.1 per leg if the 10.25 team practiced a lot more compared to the other team.

[gawd on pitch]

Socapro,

You always talk about logic. But you tend to use "ad hominem" attacks to try and make your argument stronger. For instance, saying that I'm an idiot and calling me slow. Now if ever you have taken a class on logic, you will know what I'm talking about. In logic you will learn that resorting to name calling is childish. And it is usually a sign that the person is getting emotional. In none of my responses I have resorted to calling you names.

So what exactly did you mean by the mens 4x100 team "could push for a medal" if everything is right and in place? I'm paraphrasing here. I don't need the consensus of the other posters. But one has come out already to challenge your prediction of the men 4x100 having a chance to "push for a medal".

Please respond without name calling .. as I know you would not do so if you met me in person.

[Deeks]

Socapro and g.o.p, you guys are probably the best analysts on this forum as pertain to T&F. Ah mean, just reading the above  breakdown of each sprinters' time and why one team stands a better chance than other is remarkable. As much as I am a fan of T&F, I don't going into all these details. You guys are fantastic. But oh gorm, allyuh agree to disagree nah! Allyuh very knowledge, but each see things a different way. Nothing wrong with that.

[Socapro]

Socapro,

You always talk about logic. But you tend to use "ad hominem" attacks to try and make your argument stronger. For instance, saying that I'm an idiot and calling me slow.

You are again demonstrating that you are suffering from serious English comprehension problems or clear oversensitivity.

Where did I state that you are an idiot? I simply asked you a question because you keep falsely claming that I made a prediction that I know I did not which I find highly annoying.

I asked the question: "Are you trying to be some kind of idiot gawd on pitch?" and with good reason.
Note it is a question prompted by your behaviour and not a statement.

Its now up to you to provide the answer to my question by posting or not posting a quote of me saying I predict that the T&T Men's 4x100m relay team will make the final and push for a medal regardless of their lack of preparations.
 
Why don't you post the quote of me making that prediction rather than typing what you imagine that I said which I know is fictional and misleading?

Regards you saying that I am calling you slow, you must either quickly provide the evidence requested or stop continuing to behave like a slow person who don't understand English and hence misinterpreted what I said about the relay teams which I have already clarified above.

Now if ever you have taken a class on logic, you will know what I'm talking about. In logic you will learn that resorting to name calling is childish. And it is usually a sign that the person is getting emotional. In none of my responses I have resorted to calling you names.

So what exactly did you mean by the mens 4x100 team "could push for a medal" if everything is right and in place? I'm paraphrasing here. I don't need the consensus of the other posters. But one has come out already to challenge your prediction of the men 4x100 having a chance to "push for a medal".

Please respond without name calling .. as I know you would not do so if you met me in person.

All of first paragraph in above quote is just you crying and playing victim as a distraction because you know you cannot provided any evidence to back your argument about what I supposedly predicted in your imagination.

Until you can provide the evidence requested I rest my case and will draw my own conclusion to my logical questions which you seem unable to answer.

In none of your responses have you yet resorted to posting a quote of what you accused me of predicting.
If you want to be taklen seriously you will need to provided the quote requested or alternatively apologise for misinterpreting and misrepresenting what I said on the topic.

[Socapro]

Socapro and g.o.p, you guys are probably the best analysts on this forum as pertain to T&F. Ah mean, just reading the above  breakdown of each sprinters' time and why one team stands a better chance than other is remarkable. As much as I am a fan of T&F, I don't going into all these details. You guys are fantastic. But oh gorm, allyuh agree to disagree nah! Allyuh very knowledge, but each see things a different way. Nothing wrong with that.

Gawd on pitch deserves no credit for the stats that I provided in Reply #22 above giving details on the relay sprinters from Turkey and T&T especially as he seems to have ignored all of those stats in preference for accusing me of name calling because I asked him a logical question prompted by his persistence that I made a prediction that he can provide zero evidence of.

I find it highly annoying that gawd on pitch keeps insisting that I made this and that prediction about the Men's 4x100m relay team but he can provide no evidence. All he has to do is to go to my original post where I supposedly made the prediction and use the quote feature and then copy and paste my quote in his next reply.

He won't and can't do it because he knows he is just saying stuff off his head based on his imagination and what seems to either be a shakey memory or lack of understanding of the English I type when I make my posts.

Outside of that annoying habit of gawd on pitch accusing me of saying stuff I never said I have few issues with him if any at all and appreciate a lot of his knowledge on track & field.

[Socapro]

Socapro, I follow your logic and argument.  It makes sense but one area where ppl could challenge it is the fact 3 of the 4 SB were obtained at the HCS.  People still skeptical about that clock.
The true differentiator is practice.  You can have one team with an average 10.25 per leg blaze a team with an average of 10.1 per leg if the 10.25 team practiced a lot more compared to the other team.

That has been the basis of my logical argument about the T&T Men's 4x100m relay team all along.
With a proper Relay Camp in place we can not only make the 4x100m Finals at major global championships with our current crop of 100m sprinters but should be able to even press for a medal.

"Gawd on pitch" seems to be determined to try to twist my totally logical argument on the benefits of a Relay Camp with me predicting that our Men's 4x100m Relay team would have definitely made the 4x100m Relay Final in London and press for a medal regardless of us not having the required Relay Camp and practice to help get our team up to speed.